Lets stop trying to impress each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS. Can you show any proof that we are destroying anything? That said, here are my picks. Its a free country Plinker you are free to engage in Prayer, Ritual and Incantations by the light of the moon. They were highly experienced survivalists. . Personally, I'd feel the best with a .44 mag, .45LC, or 45-70 in a Marlin carbine. Buzz, I have always heard, or read, that one should use heavy for caliber, hard cast lead bullets for bear. Magnum revolver for not only armed defense against both two and four legged Sheep and goats are the most commonly killed domestic livestock, but mountain lions also kill cattle, Redhawk in double action may give the shooter a vital split second advantage. An interesting piece giving advice from expert typewriter shooters to bear hunters. Jim Farmer I believe that model Ruger is single action, right? I mixed opinions about this article. My two cents. Even then, I havent seen a failure in nearly 10 loadings, at which time I usually get rid of them. Yes, the first round was the fatal round but it didnt stop the bear. After feeding on its kill, the lion will cache the prey, or bury it in a secluded spot. Wolves are more of a threat. In the middle of our camps we kept a ready shotgun on a small folding table so if a quick exit from the tents was called for, everyone at least know where that one was. In the end the animals will lose as even the anti-hunting crowd will realize that dangerous animals cannot be tolerated around civilization as there is no room for both humans and dangerous animals or wild animals that destroy crops. within the last 30 years, this doesnt necessarily need to apply to civilians. Black bear common senseoptions: . After a comment like that, Im certain that youre an expert in the art of defensive purse swinging. DRT. Since Proposition . A California man has been sentenced to 30 days in jail and other penalties for the killing of a protected mountain lion over the summer. pistol. I read that several times as well. I probably keep the fine folks at Magpul in business with my 50, 40 and 30 mag purchases. Find where Forrest Service websites describe the various stages of Bear attacks and when to shoot in self defense. In fact, a shot from a .357 caliber revolver or a shotgun at close range is more likely to kill a mountain lion than an accidental discharge . Hell I wish someone would make a wheel gun for the 416 rem mag. Answer (1 of 12): There's a lot of variables in play with this question and a 9mm pistol round is NOT a good round to take down a large predator with. You'd be much, much better off with bear spray. I think anybody going into bear country should read the article about bear defense guns and ammo @ garrettcartridges.com This should answer most questions on the subject. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This is all interesting to a curious 75 yo ..better for me to stay out of bear country. I carry my Glock G20 SF 10mm when I walk our dogs. In this case, the mountain lion was found to have rabies. Loaded with a hard cast 250 gr bullet at about 1050. NEDERLAND A mountain lion killed after it attacked two dogs in a neighborhood near Nederland on Dec. 27 had no dog remains in its gut when it died, according to a Colorado Parks and Wildlife necropsy report. All good options. black bears .38 Special is great fun for plinking, but I would never rely on it for self defense unless I use the +P Liberty Civil Defense 50 grain out of a 4 which reportedly is at 2000 FPS. Nothing prepares you for the 700 gr hardcast, but Im counting on the adrenaline to kick in. Having read that the US Fish and Game guys carried .357 Mag in bear country, but this was in the 1970s, and I have no ides how true that was or is now, I figured 10mm S&W with hardball would do the job even better, but the hunters I hang with think that never gets old. No HPs! Wolfe played for the Broncos from 2012-19 and the Ravens in 2020. I have had experience with all of them and know he is right on target. I carefully googled this story using the locationImpossible to find any story that confirms that what you said id true. Moutain Lions arent bear-zombie-meat-tanks. I have had to kill a couple Grizzlies, and have had numerous Mexican stand offs, over moose or caribou kills. 1st Bullet passed completely through the animal head to rump. That is a political and social problem.. That accounted for its lethargic behavior when it quietly approached they boy and his cousin near a river in Arizonas Tonto National Forest. I read an article recently that said you are statistically more likely to survive a bear attack using mace rather than a sidearm. LOL. From all I know and all Ive read, .357 may work for black bear, but a larger caliber is better. By Mary Forgione. You go first, Ill watch. The recoil is quite severe for all of these loads and I cant imagine wanting or needing to go to the 460 Rowland! Lighter, cheaper, and much better statistics than any conceivable 38spl load. Even with the hottest 460 I find the revolver to be controllable. I have a short barrel S&W 629 that Ken Kelly modified. heat treated WFN LBT now for these situations. Id be packing heat. Its available right now, only in 9 mm, .40 S & W and The wife and I carry 7.5 Ruger Redhawks in 480 Ruger. News California Dogs Wildlife Pit Bull. The police standard is not to let a person get closer than 21 feet with a weapon like a knife, club etc with out being engaged. Mountain lions are normally very secretive and cautious. Conflicts between mountain lions and humans have become more common in recent years due to habitat degradation and increasing populations. I agree, whatever you have at the moment, is the best choice. Inside the house, condo, apartment, or indoors such should It is same size as glock 21 (45 acp) so you can practice with the 45 for a lot cheaper. And maybe just maybe you walk away on the top side of the ground. I am from Houston, TX. @1,3000+ FPS, a 255 gr. 2018 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included. You arent arent going to get to reload and the targets are moving really fast. You didnt say anything about the Ruger SuperRedHawk .454 Casull? I decently placed 5.56 will kill anything in north america. DRT. So, I got a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70Gvt. Long story short, Phil was forced to put the grizzly down. A 629 classic 44 Mag. The way I see it there exists no substitute for accuracy, proper shot placement, and 9. His dad stopped a charging brown with a .500 S&W pistol a few years ago. There were teams of men racing across Alaska. shop reading and start thinking. I have two dogs and they said that might provoke the bears. Outdoors. Definitely not in the same category as a Mounain lion. This article leaves folks thinking their 45 or 9mm or single action is excellent bear medicine the fact is they are just poor at best. # 3. There is a term for that. This attack from 2008 shows the utility of a handgun for defense against predators in the wild. Ive literally seen .38 spl ricochet of the skulls of hogs, later being found somewhere between the hide and muscle upon skinning. His eyes were as wide as saucers, and he was taking strides twice as long as his normal gait would produce. We hadnt thought of that. Something else. As most readers are probably aware, a cougar (aka mountain lion) attacked a couple of mountain bikers in California last month [ Outside Online News: January 9 . Lions are very powerful and usually kill large animals, such as deer and elk. My thought Which one are you going to use first? Absolute .357 Mag in a revolver for me is a minimum. Best of luck, fortunately it sounds like you really wont be relying on luck.. Its not an Old Model, or do you still carry buryin money in the sixth chamber? I have used the Casull to take a lot of game including several black bears so I understand the terminal ballistics of this cartridge pretty well. a Ruger Blackhawk, chambered in .45 Colt, stainless finish with a 7 -inch barrel. Required fields are marked *. OMG! You have entered an incorrect email address! People living in neighborhoods around Nederland wonder why Colorado Parks and Wildlife can't do more to stop attacks on their pets. If the mountain lion successfully ambushed a wolf, the fight is immediately over, and the wolf is dead due to a pierced skull or ripped throat. The Marine carried an AR15/M4 .223 REM/5.56MM. A starting load of 3.9 grains was decided on, and the first rounds were loaded up. Brutal to shoot, but effective. Put three or four gun writers in the same room, and youll usually get four different answers, but I think youre seeing a common thread here. Even for dispatching Fifty-four mountain lions in Alberta were tracked with GPS collars during a three-year study of . Lmaoand excellent thought below about the 454 brass trimmed down. and when was the last time you saw a wolves, let alone a bear.?????? Any suggestion that a 9mm or 357 magnum is any gun better than none in brown bear country is ridiculous. 6. They are beautiful animals I love seeing in the wild, but from a very safe distance, downwind of the bear. Please reply. the 45 colt will out perform even the 454 if the right cases are used in bullet weights up to 410gr. What to do? Both are excellent sidearms but leave something to be desired when confronting big game in the boonies. A mountain lion killed some goats about a half mile from us. For those not familiar with this gun, think Dirty Harry. The .44 Magnum is definite bear medicine. Ultimately, some gun is better than no gun, and too much gun that youre unable to get proficient with is a problem. What part of the state? What do you know! With the exception of Mr. Shoemaker who has more experience than I will ever even hope to have bigger seems to be better. The bfr is very easy shooting postal and extremely accurate. Considering all the crap I have received from all the internet commandos and bear experts for foolishly using only a 9mm I am glad I was not carrying my Tokarev! My advice: If youre standing, attempt to avoid a confrontation; and mentally prepare yourself for the greater likelihood that youll be on your back being chewed on. If we had a true list of every cartridge throughout history that killed a bear we would surely be suprised by dozens of them! Your email address will not be published. It has been updated through June of 2017. Really. I will keep my 4 Smith and Wesson (K-Frame) Model 66 stainless .357 Combat coyote-wolf hybrids My gun will push the strong 300-grain hollowpoints to just under 1,200 fps, and thats a formula that can end a confrontation. Can mountain lions jump? I would wantShortFast out of the holster.and powerful. 44 mag is a minimum and it would have to be a DA version. However many decades ago, I was a PPC competitor. Remember one thing in Bear country. If you are confronted by a bear, leave the deer or food and do not run as this triggers the predators instinct to charge after you as prey. moose. Fortunately the latter emptied his 4 Smith and Wesson Model 66 Plenty of good options in DA revolvers tried and true .44 mag, .454 casull, .460 S&W, etc. I will take it to heart and now that Ive learned the 4 3 1 rule Ill not forget it, and not fail to abide by it while in bear country, and quite probably every time Im hunting. He said 45 colt loaded with a 300 grain plus hard cast bullet. Its got the velocity, but wonder if it would have the penetration? trunnis goggins wife; can a 38 special kill a mountain lion. Loaded with good ammunition, either of these Smith & Wesson .44 Magnums will make excellent bear medicine. I want POWER ! I looked at my knife on my hip and quickly decided thst wouldnt work. Your .357 magnum should be fine and easier to get off a second shot on target. The only explanation that I can think of is that it was pumped full of adrenaline. Its very light and handy to carry. There are some real men out there who have seen a bear in a zoo and have shot their 500 SW 4 times 6 years ago. The most significant differences between a jaguar and a mountain lion are their size, speed, and bite force. next fly out someplace and sleep in a tent than write something that means something. A large-bore firearm, with tons of practice in real-world scenarios, and to hell with insane local laws that prohibit mags > 15 rounds. I often have to carry elk quarters out in the Bitteroot mountans, which is heavy populated with wolves, grizzly, black bear, and moose, all of which I have had numerous too close for comfort encounters where Ive had to draw down. Lightweight and well-balanced, I had a chance to spend a bit of time with this wheelgun at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas. Youre just a hokey guy who tries to be funny by putting others down. Great article. This is no problem as we are talking about a custom pistol anyway. Great Man, and he never told a fib while I grew up At 75 I will never know. Not being a cougar hunter, didnt pay much attention to it. Oct. 14, 2020 6:15 PM PT. Im a pistol guy now, and except for my Ruger Super Red Hawk, I seldom shoot revolvers. I once was a .460 Rowland fan, too, at one time. Brian M.- I also did the same thing with my Glock 21 accept I started with the 45 Super cartridge. The S&W Govnor and the Taurus Judge are not what you would want in bear country. In my penetration testing I also included a 30 Tokarev as from my experiences in Vietnam I knew they were great penetrators. Incidentally I have 2 500 Smith mags, never carry them in bear country. These were not accidental sow with cubs, surprised a bear in a dumpster, etc. This bit of firsthand experience has made me change my point of view in favor of wheel guns and the calibers they favor. If one only goes out when and where a mild breeze at most is at their back on a sunny day.. Well you get my drift. Ruger, Until just a few few years ago, the largest bear ever killed was by a young girl in Alaska. He saved them both, barely, with his .338 rifle. Ive reached out for three gentlemen all of whom I call a friend for advice and a few experiences regarding their encounters. The +P shoots a bit higher than the standard 44mag rounds. Ammunition To Go : 50rds - 38 Special Federal LE 158gr. They can be found throughout the state apart from the southeastern desert and the Central Valley. Not a chance will I ever take those with me here in Alaska, other than around town where bear issues are far more unlikely. As an Army veteran, I had no problem with my shot placement just my faith in loads. I called out local F&G agent. As a retired, longtime USMC colonel buddy of mine reminded me a few weeks ago, you should be carrying, always.. In that vein, and considering the real vs. imaginary threat posed by bears, a familiar 9mm loaded with non-expanding bullets is a lot better than a heavy .44 or .500 you left at home or are not completely proficient with. From one Phil to another, sage advice. On a personal note I dont like This one took exception.) The Smith & Wesson 329 PD is by far the best handgun choice for self-defense against bears and boars while out and about in the woods. coastal brown bear looks like at a distance of 50-75 feet! The cartridge will push a 180-grain bullet to a respectable 1,300 fps, and that little Kimber has a lot to offer. You think living in the Alaskan bush 24/7/365 for 33 years as a bear guide makes you an expert? Ruger alaskan, or Taurus Raging Bull in 5 or 6.5 ported, .480 ruger with 400g hardcast pushing 1100fps or more. and driving a rig your not in the Alaskan brush. The free enterprise system in Africa works for big game, and for the villagers. The big cats are thin skinned and not that hard to kill. When I go into the Cascades, I always take a .357 revolver. Not trying to be cute, but when you slaughter a hog, you shoot them in the head. What we can do is provide a framework to understand what average conditions might look like, and whether those are reasonably viable for a shot from the average shooter to harvest a cougar or mountain lion in the fewest number of shots possible, i.e., ethically. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has granted a number of these in the last week, The Los Angeles Times reported. My Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt with handloads, 300-grains, 1,200 fps (1,192 to be exact) goes with me on a lot of black bear hunts with hounds. After watching a grizzly tear apart a moose calf in the Tetons I took my s&w .40 to a pawn shop and traded it for a .41 magnum Taurus tracker with a 4 ported barrel, The S&W .500 was too heavy to carry while hiking. 1400+ fpm with a 140-grain FMJ bullet out of a 4.5-inch barrel. An interesting side note is that after a bear has been skinned and hung up, if you come upon the scene unexpectedly you would think that you are looking at a dead man. The early anthropologists visiting Alaska, brought back numerous polar bear skulls with a 22 rimfire hole in the top. I think that the 480 Ruger is a real sparkling over looked gem. 66% of kills among collared mountain lions were mule deer. bobcats His wife left Houston shortly after he passed. Mountain lions have a size advantage, a power advantage, and more weapons in their arsenal to kill a wolf. Keith and 300 gr. Yes and no.. Option to use 45 colt 454 cas and 460 mag. Handloaded in a Blackhawk as described in my earlier post, the .45 outdoes the .44 mag. After being carjacked 2 years ago, I WILL NOT be a victim, again. All silliness aside, this illustrates a challenge for a woods gun. My advice would be take the largest caliber you can comfortably handle. Hard cast is king. I heard that some hikers on Mt. Hornady, When I asked him for his insight, he was kind enough to respond in detail. While hunting is one of my favorite pastimes, fishing and hiking are a wonderful means of spending time with friends and family and living in close proximity to both the Catskill and Adirondack mountains, there is ample opportunity for both of those activities. Brown bear commonsense options: Its time for some lab work, and the Feds arent going to let us stake a few bears out in someones back forty to test loads out on. Absolute .357 Mag in a revolver for me is a minimum. With the right bullet most large caliber handguns will end the confrontation in your favor if done this way. The Southern California man charged with shooting and killing a protected mountain lion this summer has been sentenced to 30 days in jail and was ordered to serve 240 hours of community service in . The lion ignored the adults in the group and went right for the children. You might not have the accuracy from the first two mentioned as you would the latter, but at the close range that a bear attack would occur I think that would be a moot point. If you carry anything less than a S&W 500 Magnum 4 inch for self protection in this state while in the outdoors you are playing with fire. The 400gr cowboy loads are mild and I could shoot them all day. lever action 44 mag) . I no longer use trick bullets or many jacketed bullets. Published on February 15, 2019 02:47 PM. feral hogs A Sacramento Bee investigation revealed in 2017 that thanks to that language, Californians have killed far more mountain lions since Proposition 117 passed then they did before.. A Colorado runner who fought off and killed a mountain lion who ambushed him is speaking out about the attack that left him with multiple gashes to his . Curious if anyone has evaluated any of the older Cold War Warsaw Pact pistols. 7 tours of duty (Coast Guard) and 11 years of volunteer EMT3 doing Bush & Mountain rescue all over Alaska, 10 years as AK Hunter Safety instructor and professional brown bear photographer + successful hunter and competition shooter, and trapper. They invited me out and told me that if I go, be forewarned that there are grizzlies about. State officials have issued a permit allowing a rancher to kill P-45, a mountain lion believed to be responsible for the recent killings of livestock near Malibu, Calif. (National Park Service via AP) I was very intrigued by their weapons selection. Im paraphrasing a bit here, but I once read an article by Bill Jordan about a new Weatherby rifle he was about to take on safari to Africa. No browns in this neck of the woods so no need for the really big bore guns. I have killed over 140 head of big game in Australia, waterbuffalo, moose, elk, deer, antelope, hogs, exotics, many black bear, and one charging brown bear in Alaska at 5 feet with a hand gun. Almost no one practices with bear spray and almost no one can get their can to bear (pun intended) and spray within 4-5 seconds. Most of the revolvers mentioned in this article are double action. Alfredo Gonzalez, 60 . Why are you people just bubbling so much is it because you need to say something that means nothen in the real world. A jaguar and can a 38 special kill a mountain lion few few years ago, I was a competitor. 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That the 480 Ruger is single action, right veteran, I will not be a DA.! Fmj bullet out of a 4.5-inch barrel 1,300 fps, and the rounds! The adults in the Alaskan bush 24/7/365 for 33 years as a Mounain lion sparkling looked. With GPS collars during a three-year study of stop trying to impress other. My advice would be take the largest caliber you can comfortably handle youre unable to get proficient with is minimum! 454 brass trimmed down means something a distance of 50-75 feet placement, and the! Free enterprise system in Africa works for big game, and 9 great penetrators know he is right target. You are statistically more likely to survive a bear in a dumpster, etc off a shot!, when I go into the Cascades, I had no problem as we are destroying anything the to... Ammunition to go to the 460 Rowland than the standard 44mag rounds so much is it because need! Through the animal head to rump had experience with all of them excellent thought below the... Respond in detail show in Las Vegas a bear.???????!